Chuck Gniech (00:01): All right. How are you doing today in there? It's been a crazy week already. Yeah. And what, why I'm hung the show at seven 37 North Michigan. Are you familiar with that building?
Ricky McEachern (00:15): I'm not, but I saw that I saw on Facebook that you hung it, so that's great
Chuck Gniech (00:20): Delivered. I actually only delivered it. It was really nice. It was unusual to have somebody else a stroke. So they, they actually had staff to do it, which was really kind of nice. It was a long day though, just cause you're just, you're not doing anything. You're sitting there watching, you're having discussions up a little lower to make it a little bit lower. These aren't working right here. Let's move this around. It was, it was, it was a good day. It was just that it's been growing school too. Okay. We'll go home.
Ricky McEachern (00:51): Well, I am working on a new series of paintings. I don't know if I mentioned to you, I think I mentioned to you that I was working on a series around motels. So I completed five of them and then I just started another three yesterday. So I went out and took photographs of motels, kind of like sleazy motels. And so I started working on those. So I've been, I paint in the morning. So I usually try to go first thing and do that for as long as I'm productive. And then I move on to whatever happens the rest of the day.
Chuck Gniech (01:30): I have to ask. What's your, what's your interest in sleazy motels?
Ricky McEachern (01:36): I've Oh, well, I kind of like anything that is like mid century, particularly. I just have always loved that type of mid century motel. I remember as a kid going and seeing them and seeing they always had the pool and they had the chairs around the pool and we never had any money, so we never got to stay in a hotel like that. So it, there was something about it that seemed so exciting and visually interesting. But now they are a lot of times, you know, if they have that facade still or they, they haven't been torn down or redone, they're usually oftentimes they're like hooker hotels now. So there's yeah. So there's like this combination of looking, you know, nostalgia to the past with you know, there's this sense of sadness and depression. And I will tell you the the paintings that I've done are definitely, you know, they're coming across as like really kind of like sad and lonely. And I like them because, you know, when I'm depressed, the world being happy around me and sunny just drives me fucking crazy. So I want to, you know, when I'm depressed, I want to be, that's a little bit depressing and I feel more comfortable there. So it's kind of like these paintings are a place that I feel like people could be comfortable being sad.
Ricky McEachern (03:11): That's interesting.
Chuck Gniech (03:12): That's actually a really interesting point of view. I mean, they don't make you sad. They just make you comfortable. Ricky McEachern (03:20): Yeah. That's how I, yeah, they don't make me sad. I look at them and I feel like that's where I would want to go. That looks like a rainy, empty motel. And if I was feeling just different from the world, I want to go there and I just want to be there for a weekend by myself and not seeing anything happy. That makes me feel like a loser. Cause I, you know, the world's happy and I'm sad, so, yeah.
Chuck Gniech (03:48): Huh. That's interesting. I kind of liked that, that, that attitude makes sense. Right. Because why would you want to make yourself more miserable if you just find a place that you feel comfortable? That's actually cool.
Ricky McEachern (04:00): Yeah. Well, some people want to make themselves more miserable, but we know that Chuck Gniech (04:05): Well, you know, the interesting thing about that is, is when you're making art, you're probably not miserable. You're probably just lost in the moment. Right. So when you're painting, you're not really thinking about, Oh, this is a horrible place you're looking at. Or even a dark place. You're looking at more structure and moon's coming together. How light falls
Ricky McEachern (04:24): That is. Yeah, that's completely correct. I am not feeling sad or depressed when I'm creating these. So it's, it's, you kind of go into this zone as you know, and then you come out of it and you're like, Oh wow, look what I just created. And then when you get other people's you know, people comment on your artwork, then it, you get to see it in a whole new light. So is that something that you experience when you see people looking at your artwork,
Chuck Gniech (04:52): You see it in a fresh way, I'm kind of a selfish painter. I, it's a way of me getting lost in, in something other than me. It's kind of removing myself. You've you're a runner from what I remember, is that correct? That's correct. Are you, or have you ever had runner's high? Do you know what that is? Oh, gosh, yeah. Yeah. It's that? So there have been times in my past when I would be painting and realizing at the end of the day that it's the end of the day and not having experienced being there while it was there. You know what I mean? So there's kind of that you're there, you know, that you're going through the motions, you know, that there's stuff going on, but you're not really conscious. So that's kind of where that comes from. I love that. That's I mean, it's, it's just wonderful. It's like, like I said, like runner's high.
Ricky McEachern (05:48): Yeah. I wouldn't say that. I get that necessarily with painting. I do get that with running and I definitely get it with cooking. Like I will go in a cooking frenzy for
Chuck Gniech (05:58): Hours and hours and hours and you know, 11 hours have gone by I would say that, you know, for me personally, painting tends to be a little bit more of an active brain type of thing, but I always, I guess I'm thinking in terms of when I was doing a very large figurative works there would be days that would go by that I didn't know what had happened or finished a painting and just find myself sitting on the floor crying because it was there. Wow. So yeah, there's been some really wonderful experiences that way. So how let's talk about your I know that you have there's a lot to you. There is the artists, there's the teacher, there's the curator, there's the blogger. Let's talk about the artists. Is there anything I missed? Are there any other graphic designer creative director, you know, there's all those hyphenations, but I'm assuming that it all gets rooted in the creator, which is the artist.
Chuck Gniech (07:01): Is that accurate? I would say that it is because you can't really not be right. You mean tell, tell somebody who's creative, not to be creative, they'll fail. So I think it's just one of those things that if you're true to yourself, if you're being who you are then it's just going to come out and no matter what, I mean, if you're potting plants, it's going to still be that creative element. Right? Yeah. So you always find yourself the artist side of it. Okay. Now, where were you? The artist kid. Were you the artsy kid in class? Where did that, where did it start coming out for you?
Chuck Gniech (07:46): It wasn't the RNC kid in class. Where did you grow up? Did you grow up around here? I grew up in Arlington Heights. Oh yeah. Yeah. So the suburbs but it was, I, my my childhood was definitely repressed, so there was a lot of like, just, I felt there was a lot of wallpaper, you know, I felt like wallpaper, there was a lot of chaos going on a lot of drama. So it's kind of interesting that I don't remember ever being like, I wasn't the artsy kid. I wasn't that I wasn't any, I wasn't part of any group if you will. Yeah. I remember I remember drawing. I remember in high school, that was my favorite thing. In fact, in fact, when my graduate or my senior year I only took four classes because I hadn't done everything else and I just needed the four classes and I was working in the afternoon and the four classes were figure drying or, and I'm sorry, drawing film, study gym and photography. Okay. I guess in that sense, I was a little artsy, right? Cause I was going with what I loved, as opposed to I'm thinking I was going to go on to school. I was going to go on to college and I needed to do X, Y, Z and take another science class. And I did.
Ricky McEachern (09:07): What were you planning on going on to college to study? Chuck Gniech (09:10): I wanted to be an artist at that point and my dad kept saying, take business classes. You know, you need to, you need to figure out a way of how you're going to feed yourself. So I took a lot of business classes. I took a lot of different kinds of classes.
Ricky McEachern (09:24): So you said that you wanted it to be an artist and you are, what, 18 years old? What, what did that mean? What did it mean to be an artist? Because when I was 18 years old, I wouldn't even know what an artist is. So what did you think?
Chuck Gniech (09:37): I think it was because I knew I liked doing, I liked making things I liked creating. I liked I liked the idea of being able to draw. I knew how to do that. I loved photography. I love not only the not only the fine art kind of angle, but I also love just the design aspect of it. So design was something that I thrived on. So, and it seemed like it made perfect sense as to what wound up happening with me, you know, becoming a graphic designer working my way through school when I wound up finally going away to school after I got the undergrad going and getting my undergraduate degree in illustration, you know, so that tied in the whole idea of drawing with design. While I was there, I was able to actually connected with one of my faculty members in a painting class, I guess that wasn't a faculty member or a faculty person in the painting class who wound up being my mentor. And he said, you know, you really should be falling pursuing this. You're you're really good at what you do. So I wound up getting a full scholarship. Bizarrely, I wound up getting a full scholarship to grad grad school where they basically paid me to teach two classes. That was my beginning of teaching. And they gave me a studio. They gave me enough money to live off campus on my own. It was the best two and a half years of my life, I think probably because I just got to play.
Ricky McEachern (11:10): Okay. Okay. So you went from wanting to be an artist to suddenly having somehow the world conspired to help you and supported you in doing that.
Chuck Gniech (11:20): Yes, but here's the part of it that I needed to do. I needed to commit. So it got to the point where I had been at a junior college for probably three and a half years at that point. And I decided, what am I doing? I need to continue. I need to go out and explore. I need to do something different because if you don't do anything different than everything stays the same, your life will not change unless you try something different. And I made that mental choice to say, okay, I'm going away to school. So nobody in my family had ever gone to school, gone away to school. So making the choice, I think was the important thing, because if I wouldn't have made the choice, I wouldn't have taken on any of the possibilities. Right. You get to a point where you realize, okay, I need to, I need to do something. So if I want something to change, I need to make some changes myself.
Ricky McEachern (12:14): Yeah. That makes, that makes sense. And I think that is a principle that would apply to everyone. You meet, you're going to have to change your circumstances. You're gonna have to change your behavior, make changes. And you know, I, I say that the, I, someone said this, that the universe responds to action and it really is true. I mean, it sounds like a bunch of BS, but it really does. If you, it's one thing to talk about things. But when you actually and maybe this is a us thing, you know, maybe if I was living in Dubai, this wouldn't happen, but I do feel that in my life, if I actually not just talk about something, but actually take consistent persistent action, you totally got you get a response.
Chuck Gniech (13:05): The other part of that is keeping an open mind. So recently I got a call from some friends who were telling me that they, there was an opportunity for me to show at seven 37 North Michigan Avenue. And I wasn't looking, I wasn't looking to exhibit, I wasn't looking for spaces. I have, I'm connected with the Hofheimer gallery and they're representing my work right now. So it was interesting because my first response was no, you know, I said, you know, what's the deal. And they said we're looking for artists to exhibit here. I said, well, what does the space look like? And they sent me images of the space. And I said, well, it's best. That's a huge space. And I said, I don't think my work will, you know, read there. I don't think it's big enough for it to read.
Chuck Gniech (13:56): And they were like, no, no, no, your, your, your work, we love your work. We're very interested in you showing here. So I was persuaded and I kept an open mind. It just kind of happened out of left field. I didn't expect it, but I'm sure part of that is, as the people who contacted me were people who I've worked with in the past, they knew my work. They knew what I was capable of. They knew what would happen. But the the thing about it is, is, you know, I could have said, no, I could have, and I could have stopped right there. And I think that a lot of people don't realize that they let opportunities pass without thinking them through. So it makes me wonder sometimes how many things that I just allow to pass by me without necessarily taking advantage of it,
Ricky McEachern (14:42): Meaning that you turn them down because you didn't think that it fit into your plan
Chuck Gniech (14:47): Or don't think about them as a possibility. There are a lot of people who don't believe that they're, they're actually good enough. And I think that that's pretty true. There's a lot of people who don't feel like they're good enough and there's some amazing artists out there. In my life as a curator, I've gotten to look at work from so many different people and getting to get to know them. And the people it's kind of interesting. This is just my history. I did that for probably 12, 13 years and curated for a space gallery. Y'all read one 80 is what the name of the space was. And what I found is after the first one or two high-maintenance artists, I wanted nothing to do with them. So having that experience of going in and sitting down with an artist who was open to the possibility was responsive that they actually did what they said they would do. Met deadlines. Those kinds of things are really important when you're trying to make it as an artist, because if you don't do that, people aren't going to want to work with you, you know, that business world. And it is a business world. The business world won't tolerate that kind of behavior. If you're not going to be there, if you're not going to produce, you're not going to present what it is that you said you were going to present, they're not going to work with you.
Ricky McEachern (16:14): Yeah. well, that certainly makes sense to me because I but I come from a, a business background. So when I got into being an artist you know, doing what you say, you're going to do setting up expectations and you know, living up to them is something that I am a well-aware is that is what's needed to be successful in the business world. One of the things. So I was a bit surprised when I started working with some people in the art world that that is not always the case. So it was a bit surprising.
Chuck Gniech (16:48): So your work is amazing. You really don't want to work with them. Right. It's like, it's not worth your time. It's not worth the energy to work with somebody who is not going to be positive about what they're doing. Right. Right. Okay.
Ricky McEachern (17:02): So we talked about taking action. We talked about keeping an open mind. So those are two concepts that are obviously things that you value and you think that are important.
Chuck Gniech (17:16): They're important for what,
Ricky McEachern (17:18): Like what, what is it that shock wants to happen? That those are important.
Chuck Gniech (17:25): It's a worldview, right? It's the way that you look at the world. And the I'm very pleased with the way that my life has turned out. Don't get me wrong. There's been a lot of challenges along the way. And every once in a while, somebody shows up that seems to be a challenge. And what winds up happening is you learn something from that challenge, you become more aware of how that, how you're reacting to it, or how you're interacting with it, with that person, with that challenge. So trying to stay positive. My work is based on the idea of meditation about trying to keep calm, trying to stay, trying to stay sane. And with COVID-19, that's obviously creating a lot of drama and a lot of people's lives. There's a lot of stress. And that idea of meditation, which again, is obvious in my work, or at least I think it's obvious in my work is the way that you view the world.
Chuck Gniech (18:26): Right? So when, when we started talking, I was asking you about why you're painting, what you're painting your content. And the interesting part of that is, is, okay, so there's obviously some other, some relevance to what's going on in your life. Right. and when I talk about my worldview of trying to stay sane, to try to keep calm, trying to enjoy, enjoy the moment, as opposed to worrying about what's going to happen tomorrow. What's gonna happen now, you know, like you just, you can't, you gotta just enjoy where you are at that particular moment. And the people that you wind up interacting with, the people that you touch, the people that touch you being aware of that, there's probably a reason for it. And just, yeah, I know things come out of left field. And like I said, it hasn't always been a smooth ride. But there's always a reason or there always seems to be a reason for everything that happens. And if you look at, if you look at your life that way, and it's so much easier to do that, as you get older and look back on it as opposed to when you're in the middle of it it seems like things, it becomes more of a learning experience as opposed to just being, being being the victim. You talked about tactics
Ricky McEachern (19:44): Like actual, you know, taking action and keeping an open mind. And maybe you did answer this and maybe I didn't process this as the answer to my question. And that's cool, but what I'm, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is those are things that you think are important and they're like tools, they're tools that Chuck uses and you are using them for what, like, what are you, what, what is your goal that you feel that you need to be action oriented and you need to keep an open mind? Like, what is it about you? I mean, what are you trying to accomplish? Or what is it you want to be that those are important things.
Chuck Gniech (20:25): I don't know if it's something that I want to be, I think, well, that's not true. I think I want to be happy. Right. That's kinda what that's kind of the goal doing what you want to do. I'm making a decent living at it helping people along the way. So
Ricky McEachern (20:40): Tell me about being a curator and how is that different from being an artist in terms of the part of your brain or using a different part of your brain
Chuck Gniech (20:54): Using, using the brain differently? I would imagine the being a curator is more about telling a story. And I tell artists this all the time when I have a very good friend of mine who just submitted work to the Rockford art museum exhibitions they do a biennial and she didn't get in and she was, she was crushed by that. And one of the things that I said to her as you know about, or you've been doing this for a long time but the thing about it is you never know the person who's journeying an issue. They have not, it's not about is your work good enough? It's about their, they have a pot of work, let's say there's a hundred pieces and they have to tell a story with a hundred Texas. And the sh the story needs to make sense.
Chuck Gniech (21:44): It has to all come together. So in my history as a curator, when I was during exhibitions, one of the things that I would do is if I really liked somebody's work and it wasn't included into an exhibition because it didn't fit with the, the majority of the work. I would actually write them a note and say, you know what? I really love your work. I'd love to talk to you about possibilities for the future or future shows. But I would, I would do that because there are a lot of people who are crushed by a rejection note, and there's no reason to be because it's all about somebody whose opinion. There's always somebody, I would tell you, make whatever you want to make, make it from your heart, make it because you want to make it. And we were talking a little bit earlier about my work.
Chuck Gniech (22:30): I, I'm actually very selfish about what I do because I'm doing it for me. And I don't have a whole lot of, it's not like I'm doing something for somebody else. Even when I do commissions and that's kind of doing something for somebody else, even when I do commissions, if somebody asks me to do a commission, it's because they know the kind of work that I produce. So what I would typically do is make a couple of different pieces and then say, you can pick one. So if this end, if you don't want either of them, that's okay with me. I'm okay with that. Because the idea there is, is I want them to have something of me. I don't want them to have their version of you. Right. So commissions are actually a little bit of a trick, but it's kind of nice that people ask, right?
Ricky McEachern (23:20): Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I've been lucky though. The commissions that I've had to do are all things that are, that I felt good about. I wasn't asked to create something that I didn't feel good about. I want to go back to what you said about the person who entered into the art the show for Rockford and was rejected. And you spoke that you basically said, you really don't know what's going on and just really just focus on being the best that you can be. And right. That's the general, the general takeaway that I got from that. And w what that makes me think as I feel like that is a philosophy that people need to have in general, outside the world, because the world is such a big place, and there's so much things, random things going on, you really can't predict results. You can't predict how people are gonna react to you, and you really just need to focus on being the best you doing the best you can, working hard, staying true. And I think that applies to like relationships, you know, any sort of job, maybe even promotions. But in general, tell me a little bit about your blog.
Chuck Gniech (24:41): What would you like to know?
Ricky McEachern (24:43): Well, I'm starting a blog, so I want to know how long you've been doing it. How that fits in to the other things that you do.
Chuck Gniech (24:54): The reason that I did it is I liked to write. And I think that that aspect of my curatorial life is being able to tell stories about work. And sometimes it's about stories, stories about artists that don't necessarily think that that's what their work is about, for instance.
Ricky McEachern (25:15): So you got to add your commentary on their work. Chuck Gniech (25:18): Yes. And isn't that what everybody does when they go to a gallery. So they kind of see it through their own eyes, with their own experiences. The only way that you can look at a piece of art is through your experience, what your life experience has been. Okay. So any, all of the, all of the things that have happened to you, all of the all of your experiences or what you bring to that painting. So you are not going to see that painting or that piece of art as anybody else. When I put together the breaking criminal traditions exhibition, it is an exhibition of some 20, 25 artists and the, yeah, that one. And when I put that show together and it's constantly changing and evolving I found that artists don't necessarily make work about the criminal traditions. So the criminal traditions are human rights issues.
Chuck Gniech (26:15): They deal with everything from human trafficking and honor killing acid violence, really some dark, dark things, but most people aren't gonna want to go to a show that seems that dark, right. It would be a very depressing experience. So what I wound up doing is, is thinking about the stories that the breaking, the breaking criminal traditions was trying to point out the things that the issues that there were, there were trying to identify. And with that I started looking at work and seeing, looking for connections between the work and the comment. So if in fact I was looking for human trafficking work on human trafficking, instead of looking, you know, like actually somebody creating work that specifically deals with that. What I was doing is I was looking for other things that would reference it. For instance, Nancy Rosen, Nancy Rosen is a Chicago artist.
Chuck Gniech (27:14): She is she is the artist behind Frank and Gracie, the Netflix show Lily Tomlin plays an artist and Nancy Rosen does actually that artist though. She created all the work for Lily Tomlin. It's, it's kind of a cool story. Well, and if you ever watched the series, you're going to see much of her work. In fact, she has a show, I want to say, it's in LA and Nancy wound up going out to be an extra in the, at the gallery reception. And all of the work was blown up the size of these monstrous walls, and it's still held together really well. But Nancy's work. Nancy would tell you that her work, she just makes work because she has to, she doesn't really ever talk about what the content of her work is. And my perception of her work is it's about women supporting women.
Chuck Gniech (28:13): It's very much like that. The work is a little bit it has a dark quality to it. It's not, it's not voluptuous, it's kind of harsh. But there's always, there's always this support of women supporting women. And that's one of the things that I do with, with regard to the human rights issue, right? So there's one image that is in the back of my head where it is very red and there is a rod iron rail, like a fence in front of this figure, and it's a female figure, and it totally speaks to the idea of human trafficking being trapped. So those kinds of things are the stories that I'm tone. So when I go back to my blog, those are the stories that, that kind of come up and I've talked about Nancy and, and many blog posts, my previous criticisms, sorry. But my biggest thing about the blog is when other things get in the way I love being able to do it, being able to do it. So in the past six months, I would say that are probably posted twice.
Ricky McEachern (29:21): It sounds like the blog is just a way for you, another creative channel for you in the form of writing.
Chuck Gniech (29:28): Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And if I see a great show, I write about it. If I I'm going to art expo that was one of the things that there was one artist name is now escaping me that I just loved, and I just sat and wrote about it. And her work is all about ice melt. And there are these ridiculously large pastel paintings where she's actually rubbing the, rubbing the chalk into the paper. And they're just stunning. They're just really, really beautiful. So and if I were, if you're interested, go, go check it out on my blog.
Ricky McEachern (30:08): Okay. All right. I will. What did your family think about you going and becoming an artist? It says, it sounds like from what you, the bits of information that you gave me about your family, that you would be the first person pursuing that type of career. So what did, what did they think? Did they think that you were,
Chuck Gniech (30:27): You're a wacky? Well, it wasn't something even my father will tell you that he wanted me to take business class. Now don't get me wrong. The benefit of that is, is all of the business classes that I took were beneficial in my career as an artist. Right. Because Marshall end of it. Yeah. they, most of the people in my family still don't understand what I do.
Ricky McEachern (30:49): They don't understand. Okay. That's a great answer. Chuck Gniech (30:51): It's not the reality. Their reality is something else. So I'm kind of a strange black sheep of the family. They, they, they acknowledge that I've had some success in this. Right. But but I don't think they truly understand the idea of what an artist is.
Ricky McEachern (31:09): Yeah. I, I I'm. So, you know, Michael Noland, who is an artist that, yeah, that's represented at Hofheimer gallery. I interviewed him. And of all the shows that he's had over the years, I think he said he, he may have said that his dad never went to any of them. They, or maybe one, because he's from like Oklahoma and his family just does not even understand what he does. You have this creative mind, but you also have a very high energy engaged spirit, obviously, since you're doing all of these different things in these different channels, what else do you think that you possibly could have done if you were not an artist with this brain of yours?
Chuck Gniech (31:54): I don't know that that's possible. Right. they I don't know that I would have done anything else. I think I would have been miserable. I mean, I would never made an accountant. Right. That's just not who I am. I couldn't sit, I don't think that I could actually fail the County. So, so, so I don't think that that was really an option. I don't know if there was, there would be anything. I think I was pushed down this. I mean, don't get me wrong. There were a lot of things that were pushing me away from being an artist. Right. But things seem to align. It seemed like if you focus on there a wonderful book, and I'm trying to remember who, who wrote it. Basically it was the ideas is if you put 10,000 hours into anything you that's when you become successful.
Chuck Gniech (32:52): But in the book, there's a story about Fleetwood Mac and that rumors was not their first album. It's the first album that everybody knows. But up until that point, there were all these changes within the band. There were all these, all these all this work that kept going on and on until they made it. So it's the $10,000 Mark that makes it so that everything just seems natural. They say that there's that story about the Beatles as well, but that's what they did. They just played for hours and hours and hours together. And then that 10,000 hour Mark is when things just hit. So my point there is that if you keep doing something, if you're passionate about it, it just seems to evolve into your life. I can't imagine doing anything else because it's not who I am. I think it's, I think it's important just to trust your gut and to roll with it, you know, making, making decisions that don't seem to make you happy doing it for the money don't ever do it for the money. The money shows up when you do what you love. And that's, that's the best piece of piece of advice I've ever given. It's one of those things where you just have to trust yourself, it'll be okay. Just do what you love, the money shows up. Okay.
Ricky McEachern (34:08): So this definitely seems like, cause you and I had a conversation, we had basically a pod, a full podcast conversation at the Hofheimer gallery last week. And you know, that was one of the things that you, you kept talking about was this general idea of letting go, things will happen. Things will fall into place being open, you know, that seems like a big part of your approach to life. And obviously it's worked for you. When did you adopt that? Is that something that you had early on or is that something that just,
Chuck Gniech (34:46): I think it, I think it evolved in the nineties and it sounds kind of crazy, but that was that whole, there was a whole period. There were, the nineties were all about self-help and trying to figure out who we were Marianne Williamson. But it was also a time when I spent a lot of time traveling. And that was my first experience with the stone circles of great Britain. Right. So my work has dealt with the meditative qualities of those circles in great Britain for 30 years now. And what that, what I mean by that is just the experience of going there and being focused. I spent, I would go three or four times a year to to London. I'd fly into London and screw around in London for a while and then go out and get the middle of nowhere.
Chuck Gniech (35:35): And there were, there are 430 stone circles in great Britain alone. So I would have a duffel bag with me, I'd have the train go to go to these places. I wound up meeting incredible people. And that was a time when I could, I was traveling alone a lot. And there was something really wonderful about that because the experiences I've had, the people, the conversations that I've had kind of made me who I am and made me realize that you just have to relax and everything will be okay again, that, that isn't, that isn't always true. I mean, don't, I've been hit with some crap in my life, you know, everybody has I'm sure. But being able to focus, knowing going back to those kinds of, Hey, you know, what God has a plan, that attitude is really helpful in getting back.
Ricky McEachern (36:25): Yeah. Did you have different results when you were more intentional and goal oriented and looking for specific results? And did you have a bad experience with that approach to life?
Chuck Gniech (36:40): No, but I think you can't force things to happen because, because they, my experience has been that they just don't work out if you're trying to force something that doesn't, it doesn't, it's not going to benefit them. There's I really do believe that there's a reason that things are put in front of you even, even challenges dealing with personalities, doing, doing things that you don't necessarily want to do, you know, and sometimes it might just be your own learning experience. Sometimes it might just be that you're dealing with some crazy people. But the other side of that is, is, you know what, maybe I'm missing something maybe I need to reevaluate. So why is this person placed in front of me? What am I supposed to be learning from them?
Ricky McEachern (37:29): Yeah. Okay. I mean, that certainly is a an approach to challenges is to look at them as learning, learning experiences. You know, and that was one of the things that we actually did talk about at the gallery. I know that in, in my personal experience that was that was a big part of like my growth in the past few years was realizing that challenges are actually opportunities for for, for growth and that everybody has problems. Everybody has challenges and it's kind of the way that you deal with them. And I, I was raised in a way that I came out into the world, not fully realizing that, like I thought that my upbringing was pegged with all of, with way more problems than anybody else. And that once I got out into the real world, then it's, you know, if I'm in a stable, healthy environment, you know, then there will be no problems.
Ricky McEachern (38:42): I don't know why I thought that. Well, I think I do know why I thought that the reality is, is even if you're in the best job work for the best company, there's always going to be problems. There's always going to be challenges. And you, the way that you deal with them is going to develop skills. It's going to develop ways of dealing with problems, being more comfortable with problems. So it's not the end of the world. I know personally it took me, you know, probably till like my early thirties to realize that that problems are just part of life. I know that sounds probably crazy, but but yeah, I really didn't make that cause you're kind of know it and you can say it, you know, I would tell people problems or opportunities, but there's a difference between just saying it and kinda knowing it to really fully understanding that that is, it really is true and embracing that and kind of living your life with that understanding. Chuck Gniech (39:42): Here's a one of the other things that I've learned is trying to listen because if you're, it's kind of like when you're, when you're in conflict with somebody, if you're just, if you're just steadfast, you're not going to, you're not going to budge. That's not helpful. It's, you're going to stay in conflict. So trying to put yourself in their point of view, from their point of view, like put yourself in their shoes. I find that that has been really helpful and trying to understand people, but there's a downside to that. If it doesn't, if, if there's no logic behind the conflict, that's when it becomes a problem.
Ricky McEachern (40:26): So you're not going to know that if you're not listening
Chuck Gniech (40:30): How do you know that if you're not listening to it?
Ricky McEachern (40:32): No, I'm saying that. Cause I agree with you that listening is really is really important. And if there is, if it's sort of like this, if it's based in crazy, you're not going to know that until you actually are listening and paying attention, right? Assuming that it's not based in crazy and you know, listening to people this goes back to one of my favorite books of all time, which is Stephen, Covey's seven habits of highly effective people. Cause one of the habits is seek first to understand and then be understood, which is basically what you're saying is when you're in a conflict, if you can you've, if you first try to pause and understand exactly what Pete, where people are coming from and seek first to understand pause, then be understood, then you know, then you, then you do your part.
Chuck Gniech (41:25): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's and it's, and it's beneficial. But then you realize that if, when things don't seem to work out the, that you think they're going to, it kind of, it kind of challenges you again and it brings up that whole thing of, okay, well, wait a minute, what am I missing? What do I have to learn from this situation?
Ricky McEachern (41:43): Okay. So how much more that this is a great, I love talking about stuff like this. How much more do you think that you have to learn? Like if we had this conversation 10 years from now, do you think you're going to say, Oh my gosh, the past 10 years have been, I've learned all of these things that I didn't know about myself and about the world.
Chuck Gniech (42:03): I honestly, I think it just keeps evolving until you die. And, and I don't know that I don't know that if I ever get to the point where I'm not learning something, if my life isn't changing, if there isn't new thought, I'm probably going to be dead anyway. Right. That there's, it's just mentally, you wind up fading away. And you know, you're sitting in a rocking chair, I'm just waiting to hear the body fails. That doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm kind of hoping that the way that I live my life is always going to have challenges that are informational, intentional learning experiences. Otherwise it goes back to the teaching thing too, because as a teacher, what you don't realize most teachers, my students teach me more than I could ever give them. The, the idea of working with 20 somethings or even 18, 18 year olds. I get the, I get the experience of understanding what the world has changed into. Cause it's not my life, right. It's not my experience. So having that relationship with students has just been hugely beneficial because you get to see how the world has changed. You get older,
Ricky McEachern (43:23): What are the biggest things that are different about the world for a 19 and 20 year olds? Cause I don't interact with 19 and 20 year olds. And it sounds like a nightmare with social media and all that. It sounds like a complete nightmare being that edge. What, what can you tell me? It's their reality?
Chuck Gniech (43:43): It's, it's their reality. I mean, you don't know anything other than what you know, right. So those 18 and 20 year olds are, their reality has never, they've never lived without a cell phone. Hell. I had a dial phone on the wall when I was growing up. Right. before life, before, before answering machines, that was my reality. So now looking, looking at what they're doing with, I kind of think the same thing, you know, how do you the idea of dating? They, they don't know how to talk to each other. Rarely do they know how to talk to each other? And I think that's the most, what do you mean they don't talk? They don't, when they're face to face, they don't necessarily talk to each other.
Ricky McEachern (44:25): What are they doing? They're on their phones, texting
Chuck Gniech (44:27): From texting. Yeah, because that's the way that they communicate. I say generalization, total understands. But the it's not their reality when, when we wind up, like I, I have in classes when classes are face to face or during clubs, obviously the students are interacting with each other. They feel comfortable with each other at that point, but it's kind of a different world because of the way that they communicate and the way that they, you know, who would have, who would have funk, that you would be typing on a, on a little phone, a little computer and doing it with imagery as opposed to
Ricky McEachern (45:08): Yeah. You know, I wonder when, cause I was in high school in the eighties and I wonder how actually how different my high school experience really was from my parents. You know, I guess my parents would have been in high school and well, they were born in the early thirties. So I don't know the late forties, early fifties. And I'm realizing it probably relatively speaking from, you know, from when I went to high school, to the experience kids are having now the difference between what my parents had and what I had is probably pretty similar because you had all the same things. People had cars, people had because we didn't have cell phones. We didn't even have computers. You know, the internet, we didn't have the internet when I was in high school. So it probably was actually pretty different other than I think sex was different. Because people were in drugs, like we had drugs we had pot, we had cocaine in my high school and we had people, you know, girls having sex and being a little bit more open about it from hearing from my mom. You know, there were fast girls, but they were, it didn't sound like women would talk about having sex, you know? I don't know. So what do you, what do you think about that?
Chuck Gniech (46:30): The, the, the timing thing. I think that things have changed drastically, especially now because the people who are who were parents 20 years ago, so these kids' parents they wanted to do everything for them. And I don't think that that was the case beforehand. I think that that, that created a whole nother situation with the way people relate to each other or the way that they feel responsibility. Being able to do work that they need to do take responsibility for their own actions
Ricky McEachern (47:13): Saying that your students, their parents did everything for them. Chuck Gniech (47:16): I still, I believe they did
Ricky McEachern (47:18): No, but we're both parents working usually because they didn't have, they didn't have stamina.
Chuck Gniech (47:26): No, it's the, it's the helicopter mom, you know, it's the going to be there. I'm going to take the kid and I'm going to make sure that they're okay. I'm going to do for them, but why isn't that good? Wouldn't that be a good thing? I'm just saying it's different. So think about, think about from while you were, you brought up the idea of sex when you were, when you were in college or in high school versus your parents your, your parents probably treated you differently than their parents treated them. Yes. So that's kind of my point. It's like things keep evolving. It's not necessarily good or bad. It just is. When, like I said, you know, one of the benefits of being a teacher is as you learn so much about society from the people that you teach. So those, those kids that are in my classes, it's having to understand who they are and what they've lived through and why they are the way they are, is part of my job. Do you think,
Ricky McEachern (48:23): I think that, I mean, we talked about social media and you know, them communicating with phones, et cetera. Do you think the way that they were raised, the way you described it, do you think that
Chuck Gniech (48:33): Is more impactful, has more of an impact on
Ricky McEachern (48:37): Who they are then social media?
Chuck Gniech (48:40): I think it's both actually, there's actually research that shows that women are actually girls. High school girls are probably more likely to be depressed based on social media. Because when they see their friends, social media is a, is a joke, right? It's, it's a lot of social media with regard to like Facebook and things when you're looking and you're seeing other people having a good time, they're really not having a good time. They might just be putting that, you know, that post they're making that smiling picture. Oh my God, we're having a good time. Well, the girl who wasn't there at that, at that grouping when they were out at the movies it feels like she's left out and that's actually a great deal of depression that is pushed her way based on that, because she feels as though they didn't like her. It's just an extreme version of not being asked to prom. Right. Or not being asked out on Saturday night.
Ricky McEachern (49:41): Yeah. I can see that. I'm so glad that we didn't have social media when I was in high school. I think that would have been a huge problem for me.
Chuck Gniech (49:49): Yeah. So I always, I always look at it for actually, if you look at my social media, there is, it's more about art. It's more about things that are going on within the art world, actually in my husband is a as a realtor. So a lot of like when he has a new property, that is that he's got available, it's on my social media as well, because we it's a networking situation. Right. there are few images of me with a bunch of people, family, some family members. But generally speaking, it's not what I use social media for.
Ricky McEachern (50:30): I used to, when, when I first started on social media, I started Facebook in 2007 w or 2008 when it first came out because and I was definitely about trying to present to the world who I was and that I had friends and I had this great social life. And I did. I mean, I wasn't making
Chuck Gniech (50:51): It wasn't fabricating things, but I definitely wanted to
Ricky McEachern (50:56): Let everyone know that I was. So it is kind of funny cause I get all of these reminders. So cause it's a little silly that I was doing that. But, but this was at a time where we didn't get as many likes and you didn't have it as many Facebook friends. Now you know, I'm much more, well I do all, I do all sorts of goofy things. I just try to be, I think I'm funny. I don't know. I try to be funny more than people think that I have a great life. You don't have a great life. No. I mean, I'm very grateful for everything that I have, but I don't need to I don't really need to, I'm fine. I'm fine with my life, regardless of whether or not people that, you know, my favorite friends know that I, it doesn't really matter at this point.
Ricky McEachern (51:54): I mean I somehow realized that, well, hopefully I'm 52. I hope I've, I hope I've realized that. But then I'm actually starting a new thing as I'm starting a new thing around cooking. So I have a new Facebook page, Instagram page and website Buckman street, kitchen. I don't know if I mentioned this to you. So it's something new and it's all about cooking. So I decided, so that'll be where I'll be spending all my social media time that in artwork. Perfect. Right. So yeah, something that two things that mean a lot to me, it's always focused on what you love. Yeah. Well, this has been wonderful. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you think the world needs to know?
Chuck Gniech (52:42): Oh wow. I got nothing.
Ricky McEachern (52:46): No, your show, what you're telling me about your show that just went up.
Chuck Gniech (52:49): The show is called transitions at it's at seven 37 North Michigan, which is actually at the corner of Chestnut and Michigan in the, in the name and Marcus building. There are 10 large paintings that are dealing with the ideas behind the meditative surfaces of the stone circles. I, over the years, I've, my work has changed drastically. It's gone from structural abstraction to to paintings, to overviews of the sites to there's even been figurative work that I've done that deals with the meditative qualities that place before you, right before you wake up somewhere between dream state and, and being conscious. So this is just a continuation of those of those paintings. And these are these paintings. They're, they're actually, they're in this great space and I'm just real excited that, that I was asked to produce the show.
Ricky McEachern (53:59): No, can people just show up or do they have to make an appointment
Chuck Gniech (54:03): Only if you're going to buy? The, the show is actually the, the space is open 24 hours a day. It is at one 51 East Chicago. And that is where the entrance of that. The Neiman Marcus building is the, even though the address of the building is kind of confusing. But it is off of Chicago. It's at the corner of Michigan and in Chicago. Okay, great. Yeah. And it's, it's a beautiful space and beautiful show. It basically deals with the transitions of time between each period within my work. And there's some things that I've never shown before, which is kind of cool too.
Ricky McEachern (54:44): All right. Great. So Chuck, thank you very much for, for checking in with me. And this was, this was great. I think I want to have you back because you, you and I think very similarly and I think this was a great conversation. I would love to continue it. I, there's a few additional things that I want to talk to you about, but I think we'll do that on a another episode.
Chuck Gniech (55:05): Great. Thanks so much. You're very welcome.